500+ Episodes Later: What Every Podcaster Needs to Hear Before Hitting Record

Speaker 2 (00:00.152)
Tim, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, me too. We've been talking about this for a while and actually making it happen is another thing. So I appreciate your time and thanks for being here. Give us the audience that don't know who you are. Give us a quick intro about who you are, but most importantly, what is your podcast about?

Yeah, so I'm a pharmacist by training, graduated from pharmacy school back in 2008, which feels like an eternity now looking backwards and was on a fairly traditional clinical pathway, found myself into academia and long story short, related to the podcast, found myself in this niche space of personal finance and pharmacy. So I graduated with way too much student loan debt, had no idea what the heck I was doing.

self-taught myself personal finance and have always had a passion for it. And so I started teaching other pharmacists about this topic, first as a blog, but second as a podcast. And that started back in 2017, July 2017. So we're getting ready to celebrate our eight years of podcasting, which is wild. I think when we started, I remember reading some statistic that if you make it to seven episodes, you're doing pretty good. Most shows don't make it that far.

Speaker 1 (01:16.174)
And we had no idea where it was gonna go, which was part of the excitement. But that podcast is called Your Financial Pharmacist, and it's really the intersection of personal finance and pharmacy.

think that's still the case. think it was seven episodes, 10 episodes, maybe it's gone up to 10, but anything that, yeah, a lot of people do stop after, before they get to 10. And it's crazy to think that. And here you are on the verge of eight years. So in eight years, how many episodes have you published?

Yeah, I should have that exact number. don't. We're in the mid-500s at this point. So we've been, it's evolved over time. We've had a separate show that we added and then we kind of wove it back into our main show. But we've been consistent for one episode a week, sometimes more than one over last eight years.

mentioned a little bit of my next question there, which was the inspiration to start the podcast was, you know, coming out of college with student debt and figuring out how to get yourself out of that and then starting to teach other pharmacists what you had learned, right? Which is the classic kind of how a lot of people get into content creation. What was it specifically that drew you to podcasting? Why did you think, do know what? And, know, we're talking 2017, so it wasn't a completely new platform, but it's not.

the buzz that is at the moment. We can talk about this later, but there's definitely a lot more in people's consciousness. So why podcasting at that time?

Speaker 1 (02:42.51)
Yeah, I really was leaning towards the medium that I was most comfortable with at the time delivering content and that I was myself absorbing content. So I was an avid podcast listener. You're right. It wasn't new at the time, but it was a very exciting space, you know, in terms of this idea that you can kind of learn anything you want, right? And it's a lot of different information, a lot of different resources. wasn't...

somebody out there talking pharmacy personal finance, really at all, but specifically in the podcast space as well. And it was a different way to reach pharmacists. And what I knew about many pharmacists is they often might have a 20 to 30 minute commute. They're eager to learn, they're hungry to learn. They went through a lot of training, they're used to learning. And this was a topic that they may not necessarily be as comfortable with as they are other parts of their education.

It made sense and while I like the blog, why I like speaking, this was a different way to reach people and also would allow us to have content that could be on some level evergreen and available.

Yeah, I love that. you know, choosing what I really like about your podcast is that it's a very, I'll use the American term, you know, very niche topic, right? A pharmacist teaching pharmacists about finance, right? So it started off...

with your experience through getting out of student debt, is that still what it's about or have you kind of pivoted a little bit talking about all other aspects of finance? Yeah, tell us a bit more about kind of coming up with that niche and how you really thought about what the content is and who you're delivering it to.

Speaker 1 (04:31.662)
Yeah, that's a great question. It has evolved certainly, right? And think that's part of getting started is if I would have said, hey, this is what it's gonna look like three years out, four years, I would have had no idea, right? It was really that first step and then let's see kind of where it goes and evolves over time. And sometimes I'll go back and listen to that first or second episode and I'm like, wow, is that what it sounded like? It has evolved. I think part of the reason it's evolved is we know more about our audience and community.

than we knew at that point time, right? So, so much of our content has been at least in part responsive to what we're hearing our community say. We're interested and we need more, we want more, not just what do I want to rant about, right? But second, my career has evolved. And so, I have often approached this topic that it is best learned and applied through stories, examples, case studies that really help this, what can be a somewhat dry topic, right, come to life.

And I'll often say, Hey, there's no shortage of personal finance information out there. is nothing that we're talking about. That's new information, right? Spoiler alert, but the way I'm able to package it, present it, bring out my own life experiences, other pharmacists I've worked with so that other pharmacists can hear and say, Hey, I've heard an investing talk before, but because of how it was presented and the stories that were used in your examples, it really met me emotionally.

Like that's where things start to happen, right? Most of personal finance, there is certainly a literacy component. You got to know X's and O's, but actually sustaining long-term financial success, so much of it is behavior. And do you have a sense of community? Do you have a sense of empowerment, right? Do you feel like that you can actually do this? And seeing other pharmacists, hearing other pharmacists is so helpful in that journey. I think it makes the topic really come to life. So it's evolved. mean, we talked

so much about debt management and cashflow and budgeting and some of the basic foundations early on, because that's where I was at with my own financial plan. And it certainly has evolved is, you know, now I'm eight, 10 years ish later and we're involved in kind of our investing plan. So we still talk about those things, but we're also kind of pushing the content to also speak more to that mid career and that maybe early retiree pharmacist as well.

Speaker 2 (06:53.952)
Yeah, I like that. That's really important because of course, as you evolve and as time goes on, so do your listeners, right? So they're at different stages of their lives as well. I'm sure you've got some, you know, fans who follow those listeners, subscribers that have been there since the early days. you know, they may have got into the podcast because of student debt and now there may be a different stage in their career and you want to keep.

this you want to keep the content relevant. I think that's a really good example of, you know, I see a lot of people get kind of stuck up on this about this chosen subject and changing it. It's okay to change, right? It's okay to kind of let it evolve. It's not like you've completely pivoted into a completely different subject matter where you're going to lose most of your audience. So I think that's a really good example of how that could work with a subject like yours.

In terms of your style as a podcaster, was there any kind of influence in your early podcasting style? Were you an avid listener of podcasts and what were the podcasts that you were listening to before you started yours?

Yeah, I think coming from an academic environment, you know, I had a natural maybe comfort inclination with just teaching. And how can I take a subject like retirement planning, debt management, cashflow budgeting, insurance, any part of the financial plan, and how can I present it, package it, and really bring it to life and tell that story? And so, you know, I leaned towards my experiences, again, what I was most comfortable with, knowing that it was going to be a new medium.

And part of the momentum is just like, you willing to put yourself out there and do it? Right? It feels big. feels scary when you're first getting started. And I was trying to not have more resistance in that process than was already there because some of the basic decisions early on, which now I look back and I'm like, I can't believe I was thinking a whole lot about that, but they were very real. Like, what's the tech setup going to look like? And, you know, am I going to include video? Am I not? What's the platform and where are we going to host and how are we going to edit?

Speaker 1 (09:02.498)
And those can be so paralyzing that I didn't want to put more headwinds against me than I had to. So I just went towards that style of teaching. And then to answer your question, as I tuned into other shows and said, ooh, I really like that, I really like that, I drew an inspiration from a lot of different things and still continue to do so. know, Guy Raz, How I Built This is a podcast I've listened to avidly that I've drew content from.

Some of the early days of the Art of Manliness podcast, I liked his interview style specifically with guests and how he would feature various authors and influencers and really allow them to tell their story. And it was the art of how he was asking questions. And could you stop talking as a podcast host and really let people speak and tell their story? And so I took a lot away from that show of interview styles.

Ramit Setty's podcast I'll listen to regularly now, which is I Will Teach You Be Rich. He just rebranded it. More focused on money for couples. Again, great interviewer, great storyteller. And all of these shows, and there's many more, where I would take away ideas of content. I would take away ideas of how they interview someone, what types of guests are they featuring, right? It's an inside look without seeing their back end statistics of what maybe is resonating out there, especially bigger platforms.

you know, that aren't as niche as what we're doing. And I also would even begin to get some ideas of, ooh, that might be a way that they're actually monetizing this as well, you know, listening to ad spots and placements, and are they promoting things of their own products and services or external? And none of those were meant to be like, hey, I'm gonna go copy that, but it really just gave me different ideas going through this for the first time. So yeah, I think listening to podcasts as a podcast host, especially someone getting started is so important.

to help get your own ideas spinning and to have a space where you can just brain dump, you know, things. So for me, that's notion. It's, you know, any idea I have for content, I'll just quickly write it down as a topic and then I'll come back to that as a space that I'll write every day. But it really is just a place that, you know, whether I'm getting around for the morning, out with the kids, out for a walk, middle of the day, where I don't have time to necessarily go into the content in the moment, I can just drop that idea and then come back to it later.

Speaker 2 (11:21.806)
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Use the affiliate link in the show notes or the description of this video and we both win. You get professional sounding audio with one click and you help support this show. Your listeners deserve clear professional sound and Orphonic delivers exactly that without any of the technical headaches. Check out the link in the show notes or description of video to learn more. Let's get back to the episode. Yeah, I really like what you said there and I think, you you mentioned about it's not about copying, but success leaves clues. Right. So looking at these other

creators and individuals who have created podcasts and put them out there and what we may deem as successful. It's okay to look at those and get influence and get ideas. That's the whole point of the world that we live in now. We have these platforms now where people... Success is very relative to everyone, but whatever we deem as, okay, that's a successful podcast or that's a successful platform.

Absolutely look at what they're doing. You mentioned how they're structuring their ads and how they're structuring their... I listen to a lot of the podcasts and I look at, are they doing an intro? Are they not doing an intro? I'm big into video. look at videos. Are they doing clips? Are they not doing clips? Have they got a call to action in all of their clips? All of these things are important. It's okay to look at that and take inspiration from that. It's not always about plagiarism, right? it's where some...

Speaker 2 (13:39.866)
It may be obvious that someone's doing that, but I think getting that influence is really important. You mentioned a few things there, which I do want to dive into in a little while. us through your typical podcasting workflow. Let's kind of bring it to present day, right? So where you are now, 500 episodes in. What does your typical podcast workflow look like?

Yeah, and I'm glad you said current day because this has evolved probably every year and it's evolved as we've done internal editing processes. We've outsourced things. We brought it back in house early days. We were kind of doing everything so it continues to evolve and what it looks like present day is we operate from a yearly content calendar and for our team we do everything in our business and Google Drive. You could do the same thing and.

know, Notion or any other template for that matter. But it's a one stop shared drive where we have the weekly workflow and everything we do we categorize by episode. So all of the collateral, whether it's short form videos that are coming from that episode, whether it's mentioning of episodes in our weekly newsletter, which is a big part of our community.

whether it's how we're gonna embed sponsors in that or what are the calls to action that are associated with it. All of that stems from this content calendar and is organized by episode. And we essentially have for every episode, what is the episode number? What's the release date? What's the date that we essentially need to have it ready, done for recording so we can get it to editing so we can work backwards from that. And as easy as that sounds, that's been a work in progress over time.

just general direction of the show that we want to go. I've learned over time not to try to plan down the title like too early because the show will kind of sometimes take a life of its own. And on the back end, we'll finalize the episode title. We're then looking at SEO considerations and other things as we're doing that. Thankfully there are tools that can help with a lot of this now. And then we like to categorize our content.

Speaker 1 (15:53.806)
So who is the target audience that this is for? Is it for an early career pharmacist, a mid-career pharmacist, a later career pharmacist, or is it for anyone? Doesn't really matter. And that allows us to then see like for our business, our product services, is the content plan, since we're largely, or at least have been a content marketing business, is the content really supporting what we're trying to do on a business or is there some disconnect there? And then we organize everything by topic too.

Is this debt management? Is it retirement planning? What part of the financial plan? Again, so we can really look and say, we doing a balanced approach of the different parts of the plan? So this is the document that we really use from a workflow standpoint. And what I will do, and I've done this myself, I've done it sometimes where I bring in other people to get ideas going. It's looked different with each year that has passed. But somewhere around late October, early November,

I'm looking out to the whole following year. Now, I'm not nailing down every single episode and every single guest, but at a high level, I'm kind of marking, for the 50 plus episodes for the following year, what are some topics? Because I'll have a data bank of topics that are just coming to mind throughout the year, who are some guests that we might want to interview, you those types of things. And we're beginning to place those so that

come the end of the quarter going into the following year, we've already got things moving and we're not chasing this, obviously, around the end of the year holidays, trying to put together the first episodes of the year. And that really helps us organizationally, it helps with preparing guests, it helps with scheduling content. And with the volume of content, you know, I remember somebody early on saying like, Tim, don't do a weekly episode, you'll never sustain it.

And I think what they were saying, which was a good intent, is like, this is a lot more work than you think it's gonna be, right? That's really what they were trying to say. And they were absolutely right because of it's not just the 30 or 40 minutes of recording, it's the prep work, it's the follow-up work, it's the, obviously the editing, the coordination, all of the things to bring an episode together. And I still often feel like we're probably not doing everything we can with each piece of content. But I think that's what they were,

Speaker 1 (18:11.456)
essentially trying to get at is it's going to take a whole lot of time and whatever you think is the time probably double or triple it, right? And so that document, that content planning process workflow and having that in the shared space is absolutely critical. And we weren't there always. It's been an evolution because what we ultimately found ourselves doing is without that foresight and planning, we were like chasing every week.

right, or every other week trying to figure out, what's gonna be next, what's gonna be next. And that isn't ideal when it comes to thoughtful content. And there are times we'll pivot or change. You know, I might have a great episode planned for a couple of weeks from now, but some big piece of news drops that we wanna cover and really spend time there, great, we'll pivot and then we'll punt that episode later. But it's easier to move that way rather than trying to just put together each week as it comes.

Yeah. So planning, planning ahead so that you know what's coming up. What's the saying? Failing to plan is planning to fail, isn't it? so making sure that you have some idea. And I think you're right. I think it's very easy to kind of think, I'll do a weekly episode. I've seen this again, that so many people do. Anisha, she committed to this. And I was that voice and I was like, I think you should.

Consider, know, now she's like, she was adamant and she, to me, in the beginning, she failed, right? Because it was, like you said, there's a lot more pieces and moving pieces to it. And then she kind of got all of that together. Then she hit a consistent patch of doing it for a 52 week period, a whole year, and it was successful. But she reflected on that and going, gosh, that's really difficult to do. And I think.

Yeah, there's a lot. We'll get into some of the moving pieces, but I definitely hear you when it comes to how much work is actually involved in just putting out a 30 minute episode or how long it may be each week.

Speaker 1 (20:12.206)
And I think what's hard about this, and I'd be curious for you to speak to this from your experiences as well, is the processes and workflows are so important to the sustainability and your sanity, but they also can be paralyzing upfront as you're just trying to get started. Because part of these, you're just learning as you go and you kind of find your, not only your voice, but are we doing video, are we not, what does this look like, what's the clatter material we're using, what's the format of the show?

There's a hundred questions that we're thinking about. And I think sometimes, especially when fear is starting to maybe creep its way in with that voice saying, like, are you sure you really want to put yourself out there? Like, what do you actually have to say and contribute? Sometimes we can enter into these safe places of like, let's build out a whole fancy workflow and process and all of that is good, but at some point you just got to start, right? And so there's...

I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth that that process and workflow, yeah, so important, but also I don't know if we could have informed that process or workflow without first just getting going and kind of figuring out what that process and workflow needed to look like.

Yeah, think, you're talking, you know, and at the top of this, said, what's the process now? And yeah, we are talking 500 odd episodes in, which is, you know, not many people get, first of all, not many people get to that point. So you have a chance to evolve that. And I'm pretty sure if we go back to year one, you know, month one, it didn't look anything like it did today.

So there is definitely a case of analysis by paralysis when it comes to getting started because, like I said earlier, we live in a time where there's so much information available. We can figure out, we can get all of the nuances into a document of all the things that we need and we can just look at it and go, you know what, forget it. I'd rather just continue as I am. I think you're right. I think it's a little bit of trial by error. Get it?

Speaker 2 (22:09.89)
get started. And I like what you said earlier about when you were starting off is trying to think when you were kind of picking your style, you're well, you're teaching, know, that was your keeping, keeping it easy. So you just do what's natural to you. And I think that's really important for anyone who's thinking about this or has just started on this is don't worry about all of those. What's easy for you to do right now. we'll go talk about the tech and stuff in a moment and ask your thoughts on that. But yeah, what is going to be easiest for you right now? If,

You know, having a complicated notion database with, you know, tag and keywords and all of that stuff is, not going to be in the plan for you. Fine. Don't, don't do it. Right. What is it? it, it just your notes on your phone? Is it, you know, a notebook and how are you, how are you figuring out what you're going to do and then just do it and then figure out what works, what didn't work, what, what, what, what, what successful and what wasn't that's okay. Right. And

Just like you said, going back and listening to your earlier episodes, and I've done the same where I've listened to early videos and episodes I've made, it's, you know, yeah, it's a little bit cringeworthy. But if you hadn't done that, if you hadn't laid those foundations, then it wouldn't have got you to where you are. I worked in fitness for a while and, you know, it's a very good analogy with fitness. know, anyone that's been on a fitness journey, couldn't, I couldn't, you could not tell me that it was this time that you went to the gym that you suddenly, oh, I'm fit now.

You can't say, there's no one can point to that, right? It's happened as a matter of relating it to finance. It's compound interest, isn't it? Totally. doing the, it's the small, it's that small amount. Today, it doesn't look like anything. In fact, you may not, it doesn't look like anything. If it was a graph, it would just be kind of a plateau. But over time, that tiny little, you know, 0.1 of a degree going in the right direction, it all compounds and adds up.

It really does. And this is the one reason I recommend Darren Hardy's book so often, The Compound Effect. It applies to everything we're talking about and so many other parts of our lives. Obviously, in the work that we do, right, it's small savings that you might not necessarily know or feel or even feel like you're making progress, especially for folks that are early on. And then all of sudden you wake up 10 years later, like, oh, that's what they're talking about, time, value, money, compound interest, right? It takes time.

Speaker 1 (24:25.334)
and there's this quiet face, same thing. When you're consistently producing content, man, in any given week, especially if you're tracking statistics and listeners and you're like, what am I doing? Like, am I just talking to myself out there? But showing up consistently and refining your skills as an interviewer and how you're presenting concepts and how you're telling stories and understanding and finding your voice, that just takes so much time.

And one of the other benefits, going off topic a little bit here, one of the other benefits I never would have anticipated in starting a podcast is just all the incredible people I've been able to meet over seven and a half years. I mean, it's an amazing networking opportunity. I didn't go into it saying, hey, I want to use this to build my network. But just when you're getting to allowing someone to share their story,

and your goal, my goals, and interviewers to how can I bring this out and give justice to their story that they want to tell and the impact that can have others, you get to really know people. And obviously in the planning before and afterwards, and I look back sometimes, it's just our table of contents document that we used to track. And I'll reach out to people, hey, we talked four years ago and you paid off a quarter million dollars of debt. Like, how are you doing? Like what's going on? Right? And a lot of these people I'll talk with, you know, on a yearly basis. And so that's a

Just another incredible benefit, I think, of the podcasting space.

I think that's huge. think, you know, and we haven't talked about solo versus interview. I'm assuming you are doing interviews. Do you do solo episodes as well?

Speaker 1 (26:00.942)
I do both. Yeah. We have a few formats and I don't know if I've ever been consistent about it. So we, do solo episodes. Probably the, if I had to take the episodes, maybe 20 % are solo, probably a little bit less. 40 % are my partner, Tim, who's a certified financial planner. He and I will go back and forth about a topic. And usually I'll play the host and kind of interview him and then I'll add my, my two cents.

You do fine. Okay, interesting.

Speaker 1 (26:30.702)
And then the remaining 40 % would be some type of guest story. So sharing a debt-free story, saving real estate, sharing a real estate story, sharing a saving story. And so I try to bring the educational content through either solo episodes or through the episodes that my partner Tim and I do. And then I more try to bring that to life through the stories that supplement it.

Right. Yeah. know, there's do again, do what works for you. So when I started my podcast journey, I'm so used to being in front of someone and talking to them, right? Whether it was pitching for business or whether it was a client as a personal trainer, you know, I'm used to delivering information, coaching, teaching just as you. So for me, the interview style was just more natural. know, and as you exactly, as you said, Tim, the

The relationships and the people connection that you get off the back of that, I was blown away by it. This definitely relates if anyone's out there who wants to, I speak to lot of small businesses and entrepreneurs and business owners who want to start podcasts or have started podcasts with a view to try and generate incoming inbound leads. There's a big difference between cold calling someone for business.

And approaching them and saying, hey, listen, story is really fascinating. I'd love for you to come on my podcast and talk about it. It's a completely different conversation then. And people are just so much more up for coming onto a podcast and talking about themselves or their success or their journey.

Yeah, and I want to speak to that because for us in our business, you know, I really started the podcast with a desire to teach, to share, to help form a system that has remained all the way throughout. But pretty quickly, it became obvious that the podcast was going to be a key source for us in growing the business. And to date, it is a number one referral source that we have for how people find our services. And here's my theory on that is that I think, yes, it's the education.

Speaker 1 (28:38.23)
Yes, it's the bringing the topic to life. Yes, it's the niche and connecting, but it's also establishing trust. And when I think about podcasts that I listen to, that I'm an avid listener, you know, once a week, twice a week daily, I feel like I know these people, right? And they built trust in a relationship. I think of Guy Raz and how I built this. It's like, if I sat down to have coffee with him, I feel like I've known Guy Raz for years and I have all these questions I want to ask him. And when I think about our space of personal finance where

you know, our service is really our bread and butter is one on one planning. That takes an incredible amount of trust to let somebody in to that vulnerable of a space to be able to help you and help your family working towards the goals that you want to achieve. And when I look at our data, people that really come to us and find us for our service, not only is the podcast the number one referral source, and we have a spattering of others, you know, whether it be speaking events, webinars,

events, all types of things. And often it's more than just one of these, but the podcast certainly wins a day. But the other thing I've noticed in that data is it's often something along the lines of, Tim, I've been listening to the podcast for two, three, four years. And I've been an avid listener, I've been kind bouncing it now. And then something happens. Something happens where I determine that I really need to work with someone one-on-one. It could be a myriad of things. It could be, I'm getting married, I have a life transition.

I'm thinking more about retirement. My parents passed away and there's an inheritance. I got divorced, right? I'm starting a family. There's a number of things, but it's that intersection of a significant life event or life events with a building of trust at a moment when they recognize there's a need for a service. And at that point, they'll often say, well, you guys were top of mind, right? Because I feel like I know you. I feel like I trust you. And that is, I mean, that just means a lot to me.

that there's an environment out there in 2025 where I as a pharmacist can just spew about a topic that I love and I'm passionate about. And people really feel like there's a connection and a trust there, but then we'll continue into the services that we offer. Now, I didn't go into it with that exact viewpoint, but that data line has become very clear. And I think that's a key point with any content-based marketing business, which I didn't even know what that term meant when I first started the business.

Speaker 1 (31:03.938)
But we really have always focused on, how can we provide value through content, whether that's the podcast, speaking events, blogs, whatever. And then through that content, if it's providing value, naturally there's going to be a connection to the products and the services and the things that we're offering. And we've gotten more comfortable with presenting those opportunities and pitching those opportunities over time. But clearly for us, the podcast is the number one referral source.

into the business that we do, which I think is super interesting.

Very interesting. again, it's not the first time I've heard that from someone who's a few people have said to me, they're 80, 90 % of their referrals and their revenue comes as a result of people finding them through the podcasts. And I think you nailed it with building trust. know, we're living in a time where you look at all the other platforms out there, you LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, you you name it, TikTok, whatever. You're fighting for seconds of attention, right? You got a podcast.

you know, even if it's a 15 minute episode, right, you are and you have a loyal following, which you will eventually build up. You're getting, you know, 10 X what people are getting on social media. Precious time. And it's, it's precious time. You know, you're spending, you know, like you said, you get to know, I used to listen to podcasts on the three hour, you know, round trip commute, you know, in a car, you know, and, and it was, and I like, just as you said, I feel like I got to know that person intimately, you know, but

And it's just something about a podcast and that trust and that authority figure that you can build via that platform as opposed to just going onto social media and posting the odd 30 second clip here, which it tends to be now. So I think there's a lot to be said, especially if, know, in any, I was going to say in specific fields, but in any field, Wherever you're trying to cross sell, create business, anything, people buy from people they trust.

Speaker 2 (33:03.662)
As opposed to any as big more than anything else. I believe it's not about the brand name. It's not about any of those things I really do believe that it's it's about Liking someone and trusting someone they buy from people not not not a corporate, you know not a corporate brand and and you mentioned some I think you mentioned this earlier but Something to do with emotion right when you're listening and you can connect with people You do connect with them on an emotional level as well, right? You tell a story about something that you've been through and some of relates that right?

That's the emotion connecting, know, and I think that's a really important factor because you look at the big brands that are out there that people know about. They're not big because of their name, right? You know, I don't know, take any, let's take Nike, for example, right? It's not because of their marketing and their branding. Yeah, they have spent a lot of money on their marketing and branding, but it's when people put on a pair of Nike Air Jordans, it makes them feel good, right? They feel some, they feel there's an emotional connection with that.

And then they see the marketing and then they see their favourite football player or baseball player whatever wearing the kit. Fine. But it's the emotion that you have with that product and then the kind of marketing comes second to that.

I was just saying about my boys as you're saying that, who it's exactly that, right? When they put on a pair of new Nikes or socks or whatever, it's the feeling that it gives them. And whether we want to admit it or not, we buy from our emotions. That's just how we typically operate now. Sometimes we can go in more analytical mode and that's important. That's relevant too. And that's not manipulative. You know, this was a piece that really took me a while to kind of my mind around in the business. And I think it's a very type A analytical pharmacist, something like sales and emotion.

Right. It feels like a foreign language, but when you know you have a product or solution that is going to help solve somebody's problems or pain and is going to have a long-term positive ROI, that totally shifts your mindset on if I can effectively tell this story, if I can effectively uncover the emotion or the problem. Like I would say it's not about the X's and O's. It's not about retirement planning. It's not about money in your 401k. It's not about what's in your bank account. It's about

Speaker 1 (35:11.852)
what can you do with that and what is the emotions? How do you live your rich life? What are the points of connection with your family? And I know you guys are big football fans, we're big soccer that we sit here. But for us, I give an example all the time that big soccer family, our four boys love soccer, can't get enough of the professional soccer team here in Columbus. And last year, one day in the summer, my wife and I looked at each other like, why don't we go to the game tonight here in Columbus? Like front row seats, let's do it.

Nothing here is going to break the bank. Sure, it's a little bit uncomfortable because we're cheap, we're frugal, but like this is an experience we will talk about forever. And like, man, if I could hit pause on that moment when we are together and it's one, have an image of my mind and I'll never lose. Like that's what the financial plan is about. It's not about, you know, are we going to reach this? I mean, all those questions we have to answer.

but it's about what does money allow us to do? And that's the piece where it's like, if I can help someone uncover that emotion and get out of their own way and be able to build the strong foundation, all these other things, that's a pathway to allowing them to be able to really live their rich life and do all of the things that hopefully are most meaningful to them. That's what I think allows something like a podcast, when I can be in their ears, you said for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, building that.

rapport, building that trust, hopefully inspiring them, motivating them, getting them excited, starting a conversation with a significant other, spouse, whatever it might be. What an incredible opportunity, you know, to be able to even just have the space to be able to do that. And when I hear back from people, hey, Tim, I listened to episode 404 and it helped my wife and I really think about X, Y, or Z. It's like, what? Like, is that, like, what world do we live in? I mean, it's just a gift.

to be able to have a space in a medium that any of us at our own fingertips can hit record and have the potential to have an impact like that. It's incredible.

Speaker 2 (37:10.494)
I couldn't agree more. I think, you know, as long as you're genuine and you are yourself and I think authenticity comes across quite easily. think on a platform like podcast, it's very easy to detect. think anyway, I mean, I might just have, know, my wife thinks I should have worked for secret service anyway, because I just have this radar of things, but I think it's relatively easy to kind of figure out, you know, if someone's being authentic as opposed to seeing a six 30 second.

clip on a social media, there's not much you can gauge from that if you've never heard or seen that person before. So I definitely agree with that. And it is a privilege. is a time to be alive. We've gone on the tangent here, but it's a good tangent. There's some really valuable things that have come out of this. We've already established that obviously there's a business behind the podcast. So I guess the question is, was that always the case where there was a...

Were you a business and then you started a podcast or was it the podcast organically grew into a business? At what point did you figure that out if that was the case?

Yeah, and that gets a part of our business journey, which I'll be brief is it really started as a what I call a media education company and evolved into a financial planning firm. in 2015 to 2019, it really was a media education company. There was some revenue there, but not, I would say, in a scalable way. It was really a hobby to a side hustle that was starting to evolve to a business. When I really partnered with

with my partner, Tim, who's a certified financial planner. And we decided, hey, it's financial planning that the media education is really gonna help support and being part of lead generation into that business through providing that value we just talked about. That's where things really took off. And I would say even the impact that the podcast was having in growing the business. So media, it's still a big part of what we do in the education. Obviously the volume of content is there. But financially speaking,

Speaker 1 (39:15.17)
The bread and butter of our business is the one-on-one planning, but the one-on-one planning isn't where it's at without the growth that's come from the podcast and the other educational activities we've done as well.

Right, right. That makes sense. talking about that and I guess money, have you monetized the podcast? That's a big question I get all the time is like, you know, okay, if I want to do this, at what point, you know, do I start to see some sort of return on my investment? Because it is an investment. It's an investment in your time and your effort and your energy and of course your money as well. At what point did you start monetizing and what strategies have you used to kind of

turn this into a little bit more of a return.

Yeah, this has evolved a little bit too. So one of the handcuffs that we've had is we are a fee only financial planning firm, which from a regulatory standpoint, we can't directly have affiliate revenue and other types of things that could be clouding the advice that's being given to our clients. And so there's this weird delineation of like clients and non-clients, but early on, before there was a financial planning piece, the affiliate revenue was actually a pretty significant thing. So think of companies like

know, student loan refinance companies, other financial institutions that would have a vested interest in our audience. And we really took a philosophy early on that we've kept to that we're comfortable promoting products and services and having a financial upside in doing so of those that we have engaged with ourselves and have a trust and a relationship that we can speak to them, which makes the, makes the sponsorship or the affiliate that much more valuable, right? If I can say, Hey, I worked with this bank or I worked with this institution. So

Speaker 1 (40:55.82)
We've evolved away from affiliate. We actually have a nonprofit now that we have some affiliate revenue going into if there is any affiliate, where we do student scholarships and some other things. But we've gone to really a sponsorship model for those that want to get in front of our audience. So it's not in that transactional, we get paid for that person engaging in or buying a product or service. It's really them paying us to get in front of our audience.

And I've tried to make that multi-modality wherever possible. you know, it's typically a year long engagement. So the best sponsorships we've had have now been going on for four or five years where it's not only hitting the podcast, but it's hitting our newsletter, it's hitting our blog, and it's touching our audience, some of our social channels as well, but reaching people in a few different ways with the podcast being a big piece of that.

So we've designed sponsorship packages over time. Some of the companies don't love this, right? Because they want to get paid for direct business. And I get that. Now, when I come back and tell them, as I say, hey, this is not our business model. You know, our primary business is the one-on-one financial planning. So I feel like we have some leverage there that if it doesn't work out, that's fine. But I feel like we have a ton to offer and that we're flexible, we're easy to work with.

And I always tell them, like, hey, our numbers aren't going to wow you. Like, we're not NPR or some of these big podcast shows that are out there. However, like, it's very niche, very specific. And we know that the people are listening. We can speak directly to them. And we know exactly what their pain points are and what they're struggling with and what are the potential solutions that are going to help them. So we have monetized it through sponsorship. And specifically, I got away from, we did transactional sponsorships for a period of time where, hey, for three episodes,

you know, it'll be this fee for six episodes, it'll be this fee. And what we found was to do them well, that it just took more setup time than we had thought it would. And there just wasn't enough skin in the game, right? From the sponsor standpoint, for them to really invest in this and want to see it grow as well over the long term. So we really stretched those out to be, year long relationships. And then we've got kind of a package one, package two, package three.

Speaker 1 (43:15.124)
I, every year I ask the question, like, should we keep doing these? And the reason is, and I don't know the answer, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. The reason is, is like, is this attention away from our own products and services that we know might have a bigger ROI in the long run? So we've gone back and forth because we do have a large community and a percentage of those are clients of ours on a one-on-one, but a lot of people are not.

You know, they may be DIYers, they might work with another planner, but they come to us for the educational content, which is fine. So there is an opportunity to monetize that group and that cohort. But arguably, the highest ROI would be coming from converting some of those people to becoming our clients. So is the sponsorship revenue, is it valuable or does it maybe get in the way of kind of promoting our own stuff? So every year I ask that question and I don't feel like I've answered it yet.

It's an interesting dilemma. think one that, first of all, many podcasts would like to be in, have that luxury to say the revenue is there. think, just to go back on something you mentioned in that answer, was about the niche again. This is the other thing. I think there's a big myth in the podcast world in that we're talking about sponsorships here. You don't need to have the huge Joe Rogan numbers.

to get sponsored, right? I think that's important. And this is where I think it's really important to have a niche like you have or have a very, very targeted audience because there will always be brands, companies, products, services who want to have an audience of that particular specialty. I think, you know, this goes back to, you know, just pick your niche and stick to it because you can cultivate that lower listener. And if you can...

show that to a potential sponsor, then that's valuable for them. Again, showing that X amount of people listen in for 15, 30 minutes, 45 hour, however often it is weekly, as opposed to just getting a few hits on a viral post on Instagram. The other thing you mentioned was starting out with affiliates. think for a lot of new podcasters, content creators in general, but I think that's such a low-hanging fruit.

Speaker 2 (45:35.374)
to get started and I think if I was going to go back and do something differently it would be start with affiliates a lot earlier because it's so easy but it's relatively easy because there's no real commitment from the brand, there's no commitment from anywhere. It's just if you can align yourself with brands that you think that your audience will resonate with. I think that's key. You have to be providing value. The reason people are...

tuning into your podcast is because they feel like there's some value coming from it. And that value could be entertainment, could be education, it could be whatever, right? As long as, and then as long as what you're pitching, your selling effectively contributes to that value, then I think there's some relevance in it as opposed to, you one thing I don't, I'm not a big fan of is a lot of these podcast hosting platforms now have these

advertising, built in this dynamic ad insertion where I've listened to podcasts where this has happened, where I'm listening to a podcast, might be on endurance running. And then suddenly I get an advert for a bank or a coffee shop or a car insurance company. And it's not even the host reading it. It's like you're watching TV. It's like you're watching television and it's just like, hold on a minute, how did we start talking about car insurance?

hey, look, people each their own, right? And whatever works for you. So people obviously are doing that. There is some value to them. But personally, I feel like if we're talking about what we spoke about earlier in the episode, building trust, building authority, then be careful where you align yourself with and what you're pitching to the audience.

Yeah, I think too, as you were talking, it made me think that some of our sponsorships came from early affiliate relationships that we were able to build that relationship rapport and evolve that relationship over time. So I like what you said about starting there and can't emphasize enough, like, you know, first and foremost, are you providing value in your content? That's what's bringing people to listen. And then if you're going to align yourself with affiliates and sponsors, think ideally, like,

Speaker 1 (47:48.158)
One, does it match your audience for the reason you just gave, right, of those shows where it's like, hey, distraction, unrelated ad spot. But then also, is it something that you believe in and value? And probably there's opportunity there, especially if you're in a more niche space. You the example that comes to mind is we have a sponsor that does a pharmacist mortgage product, and they work with other healthcare professionals as well, but they have a specific, I mean, just a perfect marriage.

for our audience where home buying we know is a top priority. It's a pain point that a lot of pharmacists are focused on. And I had the opportunity to work with them on a refinance that we did with our home. And so it was just a great marriage of, hey, we're gonna provide valuable content on home buying. Let's teach first. And then how can we pair that with a solution that is directly tied to that educational piece and who our listener is and is one that I really have used in value and trust.

I love it. think that's a perfect example of that. Okay, let's switch gears a little bit and pun intended. Gear, it's a big topic. You mentioned that kind of analysis by paralysis when people first get started. What gear should I use getting caught up in the tech? Let's try and bring it to present day. You do video and audio from my... So video as well as audio. Obviously, the video and audio go out.

simultaneously. Has it always been like that? Or at which point do you remember where you switched the camera on?

Yeah, that is actually pretty new. We dabbled in it over the last couple of years, but it was a decision we made going into this year and one that I wish we would have made sooner for all the reasons we've been talking about of building trust and relationship with the audience and connecting. I think it connects even further with a face, not just a voice in the year for those that want to watch. And also just thinking about YouTube as a search engine is something I wish we would have thought about earlier. But the first six years were really audio only.

Speaker 1 (49:51.926)
with some exceptions. And we really made the pivot going into this year. And it's been a lesson of everything we've been talking about of, you know, it's like starting a whole new platform and trying to figure it out and tons of ways we could optimize it. I'm not yet familiar, but I knew we just had to get started and let's start recording with video in mind. And then we can evolve this and build on it over time.

Okay, perfect. Yes. I mean, I think again, you know, what works for the individual. And I always say if the video is the thought of video, it does add more complexity to the already long to do list of things that one has to do for it to create a podcast. So if that's going to be the thing that's going to push you over the edge, then don't do it, right? Stick to audio. And I don't have the exact stats on this, but I still know that the majority of

people were listening to podcasts as opposed to watching them. video is 2024, 2025. is a big year for video podcasts. There's been many, Spotify is known. They've obviously going off the video podcasts big time. You mentioned YouTube. They've also launched in the last couple of years, I think it's been less than two years where they've had a podcast dedicated section of their...

platform. There's other other platforms going out. It's now on TV and lot of the catch up services that we have here in the UK. You can watch podcasts on that. You can get planes on a certain flight. So yes, video is becoming a thing, but I still believe that a majority of them are audio only. think audio only gives you the easiest barrier to entry when it comes to the tech and also the cost as well. I think there's absolutely nothing. I think you're a testament to that as well. Having

As you said, first six years or so being audio only and having built a platform like have that just goes to show that it's that you don't have to have the video on. feel like if you can have it on in today's day, everyone's got a camera. So yeah, why not? but, don't let that be the reason you don't, you don't hit the record button. Right. what about, audio? So what's the.

Speaker 2 (52:09.186)
Let's talk with this, be specific. What's the microphone you use now? How does that compare to the microphone you're using when you first started?

Yeah, I started with an Audio-Technica mic, I think 2100, can't remember what it was, did the job, it was fine. Now I'm using a Shure SM7B, I think, that the correct still on? Yeah. And it's been great. And I got another mic in my other office that's an Audio-Technica mic that's worked as well. I think it's one of those things not to overthink, especially if budget is tight, you know, the equipment out there.

is good, might spend more and evolve over time, but that's the current setup.

Yeah. And I love you're wearing the, the, the apple, I'm shooting there, the apple earbuds, right? And my very first episode, in fact, I think I've recorded using that because I just got so, analysis my paralysis, what gear, which microphone. And I just was going down this rabbit hole. was like, you know what? I'm just going to pick, pick up my earbuds, set my phone. And I voiced, I voice noted my very first audio episode and then took the audio for that and edited it in, Audacity. And I, and it's the

One thing I still recommend to a lot of people to say, grab those. You've probably got them in the drawer somewhere. They're lying there, they're free, they're cheap. You're obviously using them now just to monitor the audio so you can hear me and you've obviously got your Shure microphone there. But even the microphone that thing has, it's a lot better than just using an inbuilt laptop microphone.

Speaker 2 (53:43.638)
in close proximity to the mouth and people are amazed at the audio quality they get. think audio gear or gear in general shouldn't be the reason not to start. Again, fast forwarding, even this time that you've been doing it seven, eight years, the technology has evolved so much now. We've all got a powerhouse studio in our pockets and in our mobile phones now. And if you've got a mobile phone that was made within the last four or five years,

And it's good enough, right? You have the tech to do it and the platforms will allow you to support that. What about other tools? You've mentioned a few already. I've written them down. You mentioned Notion already in this conversation. You mentioned Google Drive. Let's go with, kind of, pivot to software. What platform do you use to record? What other software do you rely on to kind of keep your podcasts ticking over?

Yeah, we ZenCaster for years to record. We just switched to Riverside. Part of the reason for that is to be able to do some screen sharing if we wanted to do that. I think we're going to make another transition to SquadCast here soon because we use the script for editing and there's an integration there with SquadCast and Descript. We use Lipsyn for all of our hosting. And then as I mentioned, we do all of the editing inside of Descript.

I have a person on our team, used to be an employee, now the contractor. We did outsource this for a while, but we brought it back in-house that she does all of the editing. So essentially when I'm done recording, I've got a section of our, every episode has a planning document note in our dry folder that she helped set up in advance. I kind of dumped notes into, and then we have one section that's, these are quick notes I have for editing, and I tag her, and then she runs from there with the rest of the process and taking it all the way to publication.

Love it. Yeah. Descript literally just changed the game when it comes to editing. think that the I've been using it from the very early days. I think it's phenomenal. They did take over Squadcast, but actually they've got, you don't even need Squadcast anymore. can, Descript has a thing called rooms within it. actually built this from the ground up. Well, after they took over Squadcast with a view to kind of...

Speaker 2 (55:56.59)
not needing that extra step. actually when you go into the script and you hit, you hit record, it will ask if you want to record with others. And again, just like all the other platforms gives you a link and then you send that link to your guests and then they appear. it's all within the descript platform. So you don't need these two, these two separate platforms. So

or it's up to you. I love it.

Yeah, so no need to no need to extend that squat. Riverside is fantastic. I recommend that to a lot of people it's from my own experimentations and Experience from a quality perspective. I've seen I found it to just to be the best. However, I find Riverside Interestingly enough I'd be interested to know if this is different for you But I found other people have had lots of issues with it in terms of guests so

The user experience for the guest, I found, hasn't been as clean as I think it should be. So that's interesting that you're deciding to pivot on that one as well. Tim, that was fantastic. I really appreciate your time. I could have talked for another hour on this. Maybe we'll do the part two in the future. But thank you very much for appearing on the podcast.

Thanks so much for having me. really enjoyed it.